Poll: New Fics Using Old Canon

[kennahijja]

I've been thinking about the advantages/disadvantages of writing stories with 'old canon' lately. With that, I mean stories that ignore either whole books (like HBP) or certain events in canon (the death of Sirius, for example), not older stories written before said new canon came out.

I see them occasionally, and don't mind reading them, but have the impression that they are rather frowned upon in fandom. Which, in a way, is understandable, since new canon means tons of new details to incorporate, new situations to explore, and writing in an 'old' context smacks of laziness or resentment against new canon developments. Or does it? Since I'm sitting on an *old* plot right this moment and am tempted to forget that the strange animal called HBP ever showed up in its context, I'd be curious about what 'public opinion' is on this. Hence, poll :).

That said, I really want honest opinions, not reassurance - my decision on said plot will be totally uninfluenced by the outcome of this. If I was going for what's popular, I'd not try to carry the candle for Ron/Lucius ;).


[Poll #785133]

Comments

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

Lots of sense :). Denial is something I never understood, as I'm not that dependent on the way canon goes. I like nasty surprises ;).

Since you mention 'Of Wolf and Man'... I somehow have the impression that blanking out certain canon elements happens very often in smut/romance, to pull off a pairing that's become troublesome due to canon elements. Genfic might not need that much of it. (not meant negatively - that's exactly my problem with the fic I'm talking about, and somehow it feels exaggerated to try and write around half a dozen nasty canonical developments just to churn out 200 KB of smut. Yup, it may be lazy, but it's also economic).

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

*nods*
Especially since the two examples are on a whole different level of importance too - writing around Blaise's skin colour and the bit of history we have on him takes a handful of one-liners at most in an existing WiP (well, unless the writer has created an elaborate family background for him that carries the whole story). Writing Snape out of a member of the pureblood wizarding aristocracy plotline can pose a much greater problem for a story.

Though I'm not bemoaning the explosion of Snape Manor in fandom (she says, busy trying to eradicate the term 'Malfoy Manor' from her vocabulary).

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

*nods*
That said, there was comparatively little of OMG! She killed Dumbledore-denial in the wake of HBP... not remotely on the level of Sirius. I don't think I've ever seen an explicit "I'm ignoring Dumbledore's murder because... how could she!" sort of denial :).

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

I think that using the term "old canon" is very interesting: after all, it's not like OotP or HBP negated previous books, did they?

Not at all - what I meant is that they negated older *fanfic*. New as in 'more recent canon', although I'd say it *is* new, not just enlarged, as it's a progress in time, too.

I think you've nailed down the two reasons why 'old canon' fics are still written - either because the writers dislike the developments in the current book(s), or because someone started a fic a long time ago and still wants to write/finish it (*whistles innocently*). Or - I did wonder about that because it seems to happen a lot in slash/smut - in order to pull off a pairing which has run into canonical trouble. I guess it's possible to write, for example, Sirius alive after OotP not so much as a protest against canon, but to write Sirius. On second thought, that might not just apply to shipfic...

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

It's in the process of birthing ;). Started one or two weeks *before* OotP came out - yup, I'm that slow :(.

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

*grin*
I can imagine how the current canon thing would be nightmare-inducing for someone as fandom-versatile as you. I mean I get into trouble and only with bloody HP to look at...

[fyrie.livejournal.com]

It certainly makes me appreciate closed fandoms, where all is done and you can work with all the facts. Buffy and Angel are two of those, but since I've been writing in them for all of 6 years, I can't even recall how I did it when the final seasons weren't done.

Mind you, my Potter-muse dried up ages ago, which is upsetting since I have so much still to finish. Maybe once 7 is out, I'll find the impulse to finish everything.

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

Yes - getting an idea about *why* something is taken AU would be useful. For some shipfic it's probably self-explanatory (i.e. everything involving Sirius that has actually a future element), but as you say, it'd be instructive (I've been sneaking away from fics ANs announcing they leave out HBP because it exploded their pairing/character of choice).

For shipfic, though, it probably wouldn't make any difference, as extrapolating from old canon would probably give more possibilities, and widening the possibilities is always good in shipfic, especially for rarepairs that weren't being thought of a few years ago.

Any interest in looking over a longish R/L featuring my version of your brilliant 'encounter at Quality Quidditch' and owing quite a lot to Amanuensis's 'Droit du Seigneur'? Just asking, no pressure - as I said, it's long and wobbly and not your cup of tea...

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

I like the 'canon to [insert book]'

That's a very neat way of putting it - no negative vibes attached.

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

*grins back*

Sirius is dead as a doornail. It's mainly a matter of Lucius being out of prison, with very close end-of-OotP issues. I should really write faster!

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

*g*
I also read a lot of HG/SS because it's the S.O.'s OTP, and she foists a lot of it on me in exchange for having to test-read all my weird slash ;). And - truly horrible grammar and 'write me feedback or I won't write any more/don't give me concrit' comments aside, I'll read just about anything. But I had the impression that neglecting current canon is less than popular (as reflected, for example, in a number of people trying to rewrite their old fics to make them compliant with new canon).

And I'm very glad to see you up and about again!

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

I agree that it's a risk, because there are potential readers who simply don't like it and won't read it. But well, that's probably on the same level as deciding to write a weird femmeslash pairing - in-built smaller audience :).

Agreed with your AU definition - well, that's how it's defined in my book, but the terms AU and AR seem to be pretty much used interchangeably.

The story itself - just a matter of tying right into the end of OotP with Lucius out of Azkaban... not such a big thing (I shouldn't leave stuff unfinished for years!).

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

That's a totally fair approach. A CoS-only Harry would be a very different person indeed, although sometimes it's not quite such a big thing - more like dropping a smaller bit of the books. But still I'd agree - ideally, a new fic should include current canon, because that's where we are standing in terms of the series.

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

Yup, I so agree with your point about the differences in motivation - there's one lot of 'omg, canon didn't go my way!' people, and another 'omg, this clashes with my plot' lot :).

Heh - I don't judge you. No, siriusly ;).

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

That's perfectly fair! I love a huge lot of pre-HBP/OotP fics - they're our fandom's history, after all ;).

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

I honestly also prefer current canon or simply older fic. But especially with shipfic, I don't mind much if it leaves out some canon details in order to make the pairing work. With genfic I'd have greater problems, perhaps, unless it's really to explore an interesting-but-old possible plotline.

[chthonya]

I'd be happy to - though I have a bit of a beta backlog at the moment and in fairness won't be able to get to it until I get back from my trip on the 22nd (and even then I only have two days at home before going away for the weekend so I couldn't guarantee to get it done before that weekend). So if you don't mind waiting a month (eek!), then yes - but if you want it back sooner than that, I'll understand.

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

Mmh... It has a deadline which I might be able to stretch til the end of August, but any more would set a pretty bad example for my own challenge ;). And it'll be horribly long, so you'll be better of not having to do it :). Thanks anyway - I hope you'll be having a great trip and weekend trip, just in case you're already off or on your way out :). Weather warmed up again, thank heavens! *hugs*

[snakeling]

*coming late to the party* ;)

I don't mind if people write stories which ignore canon. If the story's good, who cares? I do mind when people don't warn for it. When I go into a story and there are no AU warnings or whatever, I expect Sirius and Dumbledore to be dead as doornails, and I'm extremely annoyed when they aren't.

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

*nods*
The warning would be pretty self-evident. Although I tend to read a lot of older fic, so Dumbledore and Sirius gallivanting about doesn't surprise me that much while reading. But it's just polite to mention.

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

Sorry for the late, but yes, I can see your point - I mean HBP left its own exciting paths to take future stories, but as you say, they're quite limiting after the first enthusiasm has passed.

The other fandom issue is fascinating... I've been a lurker in BtVS while it was still being aired (the only fandom of mine where that happened), and remember that it also had a lot of different timelines because it was aired a lot later in most parts of the world. So the cutting edge of fandom differed, and you had tons of different timelines, and spoiler warnings, and 'set during/after season whatnot' was pretty much a standard staple of labelling fic.

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

Agreed - a sort of warning really should be there. I completely agre with your analysis of the limited directions of HBP-compliant fanfic - and perhaps this issue is going to become even greater once the last book is out (ok, for those who might still want to write HP fic after that).

Sirius... yes, I also prefer a however skimpy 'how he came back to life' explanation (they're not that hard to do) to totally ignoring his death :).

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

Yup, I also usually prefer fics up to current canon, even though I don't mind reading fic with older canon - especially since sometimes I just assume it's an older fic/WiP and don't question it unless the author calls attention to it being newly written.

To hold up the candle for the hyper-keen slashers, I think a Sherlock-Holmes-during-WW2 AU could even be good fun - well, if the author did it on purpose, and knew what he was doing. Like removing the characters into a very different world. I like that sort of thing - if it's well done.

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

Sorry for being so late replying! Yes, I pretty much think that WiPs starting in old canon timeline are fair game always, and, to a lesser degree, pre-existing plotbunnies probably as well. If I were heretic I'd say if Harry can shag Draco in a plot, he can just as well do so while Sirius is alive ;). But of course you're dead right - working with current canon is a far greater challenge.

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

3. You're one wise woman :).

*nods about the rest*
Having a plot solution that incorporates the newest canon is definitely the most elegant ideal for me too, and I prefer reading such fics. But it was still somewhat reassuring that the idea of dissing the latest book to pull off a fic wasn't quite as bad a fandom crime as I'd thought it was. Perhaps what made me so leery was that some people would actually try and make their old stories compliant with new canon once a new book came out. Which I find really excessive, but I've seen it quite a few times...