Ron/Lucius Essay(let) and Recs

[kennahijja]

Without further ado, and at some length because lazy_neutrino asked "Why Ron/Lucius?" and because "It's just hot" just won't do as an answer :).


First of all, it's not entirely about the slash - any story that pits those two characters against each other is going to set my little heart aflutter :). It's only that Ron-Lucius gen is an even more elusive thing (see the sole rec below) than Ron/Lucius slash...

But since most of what there is is slash, let's focus on that. Well, I enjoy my slash pairings with as much tension and contrast as possible. Contrast in ideology, power, age, character, and so on. And of course I've come to Ron/Lucius through Harry/Lucius, which is still my favourite 'mainstream' pairing (not that it's remotely mainstream, but a lot more popular than Ron/Lucius). But where Harry/Lucius is the classic youthful hero/older villain conflict, Ron/Lucius is more subtle in several ways.

First of all, they are both overshadowed by powerful figures - Ron by Harry, the hero, and Hermione, the brain, and Lucius by Voldemort. And this second-rate status can rankle. There's the old fandom debate about what would make a man as proud as Lucius Malfoy serve a 'Mudblood' madman like 'Lord Voldemort', a question to which the answer probably lies buried somewhere between 'power' and 'politics'. Ron is certainly not in it for power but for friendship and loyalty, but he can react rather badly to being overshadowed as well. And not totally without reason either, if Harry's incredulous reaction to Ron becoming Prefect in OotP is anything to go with.

That ties in with a characteristic they both share: ambition, or, in Ron's case, a desire for recognition. When not resorting to violence/intimidation as a Death Eater, Lucius attempts to gain status through money and political influence in the wizarding world - the Slytherin way, while Ron only *dreams* of success. He sees himself as head boy and Quidditch captain in the Mirror of Erised, but lacks the self-confidence to actually try and stand out - in asking Fleur to the Yule Ball, or trying out/playing Quidditch keeper.

It's this combination of wanting to be recognised and lacking self-confidence that tempts me most in writing Ron/Lucius. What I want to explore is how Ron would do when he's forced to stand up to Lucius, thrown back on his own resources. He has courage, proven repeatedly in canon, but there always overshadowed by Harry, who is forced by circumstances to display greater courage than anybody else. He is intelligent, although not the kind of ideal school pupil intelligence that would make him stand out academically. Quite like Harry, he doesn't seem to care much about book knowledge, and seems to be unwilling to put much effort into things that don't interest him. He's lazy (I can *so* identify with that). But then he has the kind of strategic mind that allowed him to beat McGonagall's chess trap at age eleven. My subjective inkling is that Ron, *forced* to think on his feet without friends to fall back on, could be *quite* brilliant, and I think that Lucius is the perfect opponent to tease out Ron's strengths.

That said, I think Ron and Lucius share a number of other character traits as well: they both have a volatile temper (think Lucius in CoS with Arthur and Harry...), are outspoken to the point of rudeness, come from pureblood wizarding families (if very different ones), and have an appreciation for material wealth. Which, in Lucius's case, translates into throwing money around offensively and in an exaggerated pride in being wealthy. With Ron, it shows in his resentment of his family's poverty. There's no doubt that Ron loves his family, and rather shares his father's easy-going lack of ambition, but he hates being poor, having only second-rate things, and in particular being taunted about it. Which, come to think about it, is a trait many of the Weasley children seem to share (all being eager to make a career/name for themselves). Though here, again, the Gryffindor/Slytherin contrast comes in: Lucius wants wealth to buy power, Ron would, I assume, be content with being moderately well-off to feel safe and pursue the few interests that matter to him.

And, of course, both have a ruthless side. Lucius's doesn't require any elaboration, but Ron, too, can be aggressive, cruel and violent and has his own set of prejudices and not too many scruples.

As a 'pairing', I can't see them romantically involved without a *very* convincing backstory - it lends itself much more to fics of the non-con or dub-con variety. Lucius isn't the type to fall in love, and Ron is *certainly* not the type to fall in love with Lucius! If they entered a relationship, it would have to be based on something else, from blackmail to chance/sex to a grudging feeling of mutual respect. And under changed political conditions, or alternatively a manipulative relationship during the Voldemort war.

Very subjectively, I can have a hard time buying into stories that give Ron the upper hand in such a relationship/encounter, even more so than with Harry/Lucius. Because much as I love Lucius as a character, what really tickles me about this pairing (hot sex aside, *grin*) is that it allows Ron to develop into a more rounded, intriguing character. Though, granted, Ron's very own 'darker side' lends itself to interesting possibilities here, so it's not a prejudice against bottom!Lucius (either in matters of sex or power) - I just need to bend my preconceptions a little :).

Now, Ron/Lucius is quite a rarepair, but there are a handful of fics which I love to bits, just if you want to get a taste for the pairing (or want to get over the initial horror of the idea, *g*):

SLASH:
Sympathy for the Devil by mad_maudlin [NC-17, one-shot]
Summary: Lust. Fornication. Deceit. There are greater sins.
Nobility by the_con_cept [NC-17, one-shot]
Summary: Voldemort has all but won, and Ron is given to Lucius Malfoy. It’s nothing like he was expecting.
Recollection by switchknife [R, ficlet]
Summary: 'Lucius Malfoy seduces Ron to the dark side...

GEN:
Worthy of Respect by chthonya [PG, one-shot]
Summary: When Ron returns from Egypt, holiday memories and the upcoming Quidditch season push his sister's recent ordeal to the back of his mind ... until he comes face to face with Lucius Malfoy.

While these are my top favourites, I've collected a list of Ron/Luciusfic here. Yep, wrote some to - they're listed there as well, *g*. As always, if you know of others, let me know!

Comments

[mizbean.livejournal.com]

This was a fascinating read. Thanks for posting this. I'm not the biggest Lucius fan, to be honest, but you've certainly touched on why I like to write Ron.

I'll definitely check out the recs. I've already read Sympathy for the Devil, I think from your earlier recommendation and liked that.

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

Yes, I'm still totally giddy over SftD :). I like writing Lucius even more than Ron, but more as a foil to explore other characters, I think.

[liriaen.livejournal.com]

I've read pitifully little in the way of Lucius/Ron, less than your (much appreciated!!!) recs list actually - not because I wouldn't want to but for sheer lack of stumbling over materia; it's quite the rare pair, as you say.

But I do see the potential. Their conflict and convergence would cut through social strata, open interesting doors into pure-blood thinking... And temperament-wise, they are clearly well-matched.

I love your presentation! And I wholeheartedly agree with If they entered a relationship, it would have to be based on something else, from blackmail to chance/sex to a grudging feeling of mutual respect - which may be one of the reasons there is so little of this pairing to be seen: they won't allow a writer the easy way out. Romance is not really an option, and to explore the other side, those hesitant/begrudging/potentially violent situations between them in a credible way will always be (yes, Ron dear) BLOODY hard.

Which should make it all the more appealing, neh?

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

*nods enthusiastically*
I've got a lot of hard words to think (if not to say, 'cause to each their own) about the existence of the nightmare that is Harry/Lucius fluff... Bloody hard indeed (with emphasis on bloody), but definitely fun :).

[liriaen.livejournal.com]

I am *so* not going to say "blood = fun"! :) Well. Cough. Whistle.
When I read jordangrant's Famous Last Words, I thought that could very well have been a Lucius/Ron instead of a Draco/Ron. Not to lessen Jordan's achievement here - but the dynamic could easily have extended to the other white meat Malfoy as well.

That said, and without wanting to open that can of worms, it is my firm conviction that the Malfoys are honorary ShinRa are honorary Borgia. :) I just hope they won't do anything stupid like an unpremeditated sortie at Viana, but Book 7 bodes so ill for the clan.

Till then... I'll lean back and look for more grim Lucius/Ron goodness. :D

[snorkackcatcher]

Hmm. Interesting. You make a good case for putting Ron and Lucius together as characters in a genfic, but -- as you say yourself -- the likelihood of them ever having or wanting any kind of romantic or sexual relationship is minimal. It seems like one of those cases where it's a pity that shipfics are so prevalent in the HP fandom that people seem automatically to tend to write them even when the ship has very little plausibility?

And -- personal irritant -- I'm uneasy about using the term 'romance' in conjunction with 'noncon' or 'dubcon'. Because surely, the basic point is that it isn't in any way romantic? (Not the only place I've seen it -- the Veritaserum guidelines use that terminology too.)

I did read Worthy of Respect which was good, but if I was going to read these two slashed together, my preference would be for Ron to be the one with the power. I guess I'm just not keen on the 'Cool!Evil!Guy' type fics where the really unpleasant characters like Lucius get to torment decent characters like Ron.

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

And -- personal irritant -- I'm uneasy about using the term 'romance' in conjunction with 'noncon' or 'dubcon'.

*nods*
Was I ambiguous here? I meant it as a clear distinction - either 'romance' (harder to pull off) or noncon/dubcon (easier to pull off with the pairing). But you're right, it's a sometimes problematic distinction. You have 'slash' and 'het', which both subsume sex of the voluntary and unvoluntary kind, but which is often automatically translated as 'romance', which covers only the former.

I guess I'm just not keen on the 'Cool!Evil!Guy' type fics where the really unpleasant characters like Lucius get to torment decent characters like Ron.
Which is exactly the scenario which makes my day and more :). I admit I'm quite fond of rarepairs because sex is one additional way to explore difference... It's not remotely canonical, of course, just... character exercises with benefits. For some of us ;).

[leni-jess.livejournal.com]

That was interesting, and explains the attraction that you have for it (formerly puzzling to me): I can see that the thought of teasing Ron into being fully himself is tempting (though not to me). I wonder what the interests of the other authors you reference here and in the linked list are? Maybe I'll go read…

You should include your own gen and slash Lucius/Ron fics in this list - or mention that they're on the list you link to (including the recent L/H/R fic, which illustrates many of your points beautifully), in case readers don't know about them. They are all excellent.

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

Yep, Ron is a guilty pleasure, but a subjective one :). And I still owe you for lowering yourself into the depths of Ronfic for the beta ;).

I added a vague comment to my own fics, but did not want to give the impression I did two pages of pseudo-essay waffling just to pimp my fic. When all I'm after is to pimp my new passion ;).

[leni-jess.livejournal.com]

You don't owe me anything! It was an enjoyable experience, once I worked up to it (and that had nothing to do with the story; RL woes).

I see your point.

I've been looking at the stories you link here, and *ducks head ashamedly* I may have to read them (chthonya's and the_con_cept's particularly; they look - interesting). I've copied them to the hard drive; the next step is to take a deep breath and open the file.

In mad moments I think of revisting that Lucius/Weasleys crackfic I outlined once... to see if I could write it.

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

*snickers madly*
The pressure of opening the file ;). Good luck :).

[redplasticglass.livejournal.com]

As someone dying for some bottom Lucius to Ron, slashy-wise or figuratively in a genfic, I cry whenever I realize that it'll likely never show up in any archive anywhere. It was Mctabby that did that 'least liked pairing' poll, right? Ron/Lucius was THE least liked. (or one of them at the very very bottom)

I guess that's why I'm stuck writing/drawing it myself. Even so, I find myself defaulting to Snape and Lucius genfic, because it's so much easier.

:|

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

Yep, McTabby's poll brought it home that Ron/Lucius is a rather solitary passion :).

Yeah, what she said...

[stuckinsea.livejournal.com]

if Harry's incredulous reaction to Ron becoming Prefect in OotP is anything to go with.

Thank you. I remember reading that and I was like. Excuse me? The one time I get recognized and you shit on me. Come on now.

And then in the end when Dumbledore tries to explain it away, that Harry wasn't made Prefect because he thought he had enough to deal with. As if Ron was again second choice. I blame JK sometimes, even though she says Ron is her favorite character, for people's blatant hate of him. As if he was a second class citizen. It irks me to no end on the subject.

But then he has the kind of strategic mind that allowed him to beat McGonagall's chess trap at age eleven. My subjective inkling is that Ron, *forced* to think on his feet without friends to fall back on, could be *quite* brilliant, and I think that Lucius is the perfect opponent to tease out Ron's strengths.


Exactly. At that age and he beat it, because he was determined to save his friends. And I think Lucius would tease it out of him, I think it would be an amazing challenge, because Ron, well the Ron in my mind, won't just sit there and take it, it's like a clash of the Titans really, both side trying to conquer the other, but we know Lucius is too far in the game to back down without the win.

Yes. I want Ron's darker side to come out.

"Lessons"
By merrycontrary


I love this fic, because of all of that. That what started out as one thing, turned to a whole another tale. That even with Lucius bottoming to Ron, that he holds all the cards, that it's Lucius dominating him. Love it.

I don't know, I'm torn on the love thing. I think Ron could love him. I think Lucius might, but I don't think he'd ever say it, he's too proper for that. Does that make sense? So, there could be love, but I'd see it more on Ron's side, though he might have a hard time of saying it as well, as Hermione so eloquently put it, "the emotional range of a teaspoon."

I love Ron. He is by far my favorite character. People don't see him being a slashy kind of guy. Think he's too 'straight' for it. It's obvious people are still hung up on the fact that the only way a man can be gay is if he's a flaming queen. Let's see Esera Tuaolo was a NFL player for the Bronco's...does he look gay? Well he is. I've seen some writers make Ron so flamboyant and that's the only way they can make him gay, I don't like Ron that way. He's made to be rough, tempermental and sometimes a bit rude. Keep him that way.

Anyway. Amazing points and loved every minute of it. Long live the Lucius/Ron Ship, with kennahijja appointed as the new Captain. Long may you reign...lol.

:wink:

Re: Yeah, what she said...

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

Of course concerning Ron as prefect, I'm not quite sure what would qualify him in Dumbledore's eyes... He isn't really prefect material at all. But I think he has a steel core, more than Harry even, and a potential that remains untapped because it's never called for at Hogwarts, and in the war. Of course I tend to idealise my Ron into a perfect, perceptive little martyr which he isn't, but I think he's strong.

I loved 'Lessons' - it's so wonderfully complex.

Love... yes, I think Ron could love Lucius quite a lot, but in a quiet way, not the 'serenading him on petal-strewn balconies' type of love I'd (wrongly but reflexively) associate with 'romance' :). If those two go together, I think there needs to be a whole lot of respect from Lucius (considering Ron's prickly reaction to not being appreciated), and a lot of sincere affection from Ron to overcome the murdering Death Eater issue.

I hardly think about gay/straight when it comes to Ron (though his movie!GoF moment over Krum was fun). I think he's the type who'll love whoever he falls for (or with...), gender and expectations second-rate. He's that kind of the loyal type.

And *snicker*
I couldn't steer my way out of a wet paper bag, but I *have* toyed with the idea of a Ron/Lucius comm, just to collect fic and recs and to promote the pairing a bit... Think that would flow for a pariring that's so rare and came out *way* least favourite in mctabby's Shipping Polls?

[lynnette-lacy.livejournal.com]

Right On! You said it all. I only wish you had some more recs, I've already read and loved these. It is sooo hard to find this pairing. I really wish it hadn't taken over my brain, but there it is.

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

You read *all* of them, even of the longer post??? *bows in awe*
Either way, I've just added two more to the latter ;).

[(Anonymous)]

Once I start I can't stop! Thanks again!

[lynnette-lacy.livejournal.com]

Once I start I can't stop! Thanks again!

[bellonablack.livejournal.com]

Wow, that's a very detailed and thoughtful read. :) Go you. I like extreme contrast of pairings myself as you know. ;) The more opposite, the better. And I agree with testing Ron, in a way. He's one of my favorite characters, and he's very brave but Harry's just well, just Harry. I think you're an awesome representative to this ship.

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

I really don't love it *more* than Harry/Lucius, only that it's fresh and crisp and I'm mildly obsessed at the moment ;).

[ejab62.livejournal.com]

Your stories are the ones that got me to notice the Lucius/Ron pairing and I must say, the more I think about it, the more it makes perfect sense, really.
I seriously doubt that i could ever write one as Ron is still not able to fascinate me enough but I certainly understand what you mean.
I looked at it like this - Lucius is overshadowed by Voldemort and Ron is overshadowed by Harry (and yes, her). Suppose they'd join forces to eliminate Voldemort *and* Harry?Mmm, must think about that some more, I guess.

What you wrote is perfect. It just fits.

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

Ron's weird - I used to hate him, then tried to write his PoV once and we clicked :). Sneaky little critter, *pets*.

[sylvanwitch]

I have to admit until you issued me that drabble prompt I had never once considered coming anywhere near ths pairing. In part, it's because I don't write a strong Ron. That is, I tend very much to the dark side (as I'm sure you noticed in the drabble that resulted from the aforementioned prompt), and I just can't seem to write a dark Ron. Or, if I do, it's only from a distance, as in "Ron was a traitor and now he's dead." But your challenge made me rethink my position on Ron, mostly because I LOVE writing Lucius (usually with Snape) and here I was going to have to put Lucius into a plausible scenario with Ron. I chose Ron as Dom because that's counterintuitive; as you noted above, Ron usually bottoms, or rather, Lucius naturally tops. It's not that Lucius *can't* bottom...it's just that it's hard to imagine a circumstance in which he'd allow such a thing to take place, much less enjoy it. The scenario I came up with was helped along in its plausibility by the fact that it *is* a drabble. That is, I can leave a lot to assumption, since it's outside the purview of the handfull of words I'm allowed. But now that I've written it, I'm thinking about how Lucius might come to be on his knees in front of a very interested and notably naked Ron. So I think you've started something, and I just want to thank you. I'm enjoying thinking about it and plotting it out, and I'm doubtless going to enjoy writing it, too. And maybe, finally, I'll achieve Ron-voice! So thank you!

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

'Counterintuitive' is a pretty word :). And it puts the finger right on - I need to bend my mind a bit for it to work, but it's not taking the easy/expected way out.

Glad I could infect you with a dose of the Ron-bug - I hope it will turn into something full-blown ;).

[matildabishop.livejournal.com]

I love you for writing L/R and I have loved your stories when I've stumbled over them. Mind if I friend so I won't have to resort to the ol stumble-over to read you? Thanks for this post.

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

Sure, no need to ask at all! I'm happy you liked the fics, and the waffly post :).

*loves your icon big time*

[matildabishop.livejournal.com]

Friended.

I do have some wonderful icons. *so modest*

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

Friended back. And indeed you have ;).

[matildabishop.livejournal.com]

That icon is funny as hell.

Did JKR really say Ron was her favorite? I've been reading PoA to my eight-year-old. Seems like it's been downhill for poor Ronniekins since then.

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

*grin*
Glad you like the rabidshipper!icon ;).

I never read interviews, but others do religiously, so I'd trust them. Though nah, I can't see it either... He can be an awful git at times. Then again, didn't she at one point say she identified most with Hermione? Which isn't the same thing as liking best, of course...

[chthonya]

Great essay (and not just because of the rec, for which thanks :) Are you going to do a version for ship_manifesto?

That ties in with a characteristic they both share: ambition, or, in Ron's case, a desire for recognition.

Personally, I think that 'desire for recognition' applies to Lucius as well. That reaction to Borgin's comment about wizarding blood counting for less everywhere... Anyone who was comfortable with his position wouldn't need to harp on about it that much: he may have more recognition than Ron, but it's nowhere near as much as he wants.


both... have an appreciation for material wealth

Oh, that's interesting - I'd not made that connection before. Though as you say, Ron is pretty easy going - I feel he's almost forced into an appreciation of... well, if not material wealth, at least money, because he knows what it's like not to have enough. I'm not sure it's a driving motivation they have in common, though - Lucius seems to rather take the availability of money for granted - we see him questing after power, not wealth per se. Whereas Ron pines less for wealth than for equality with his classmates. Sure, he's envious when he sees it flaunted, but he doesn't seem to have an inordinate desire for expensive clothes and toys - just ones that aren't crap.

Which isn't to say that wealth isn't a potentially fascinating flashpoint - far more so than with Lucius/Hermione.


And, of course, both have a ruthless side. Lucius's doesn't require any elaboration, but Ron, too, can be aggressive, cruel and violent and has his own set of prejudices and not too many scruples.

*nods*


And your exchange with snorkackcatcher about the cool!evil!guy made me ponder... if I'm reading you correctly, you're saying you love that dynamic because it brings out the strengths of the 'weaker' character, at least in the case of this pairing. For me... well, okay, there's the part of me that gets off on powerplays and made me drool over the Lucius-Arthur scenes in 'Rodents' (speaking of which, *cough*), but for character exploration I think it interests me for the opposite reason - for bringing out the weakness in the supposedly 'stronger' character.

Which, on reflection, is I think more akin to your approach to Lucius/Harry? Because as you so often commented, in that pairing you found it difficult to write a non-victim Harry. So for Ron it seems to go the opposite way to Harry. If you agree, I'd be interested to know why that might be.

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

Personally, I think that 'desire for recognition' applies to Lucius as well.

Oh, so do I :). But I think from what we've seen of Lucius in canon, recognition is not his core motivation, even if he definitely strives for it, and becomes outraged when he doesn't receive it. But I think for him, influence is more important; recognition is what he thinks he deserves without particular effort, simply for being a member of the wizarding aristocracy. What we see him strive for throughout – with Voldemort, with the school governors, with the ministry – is power and influence. That, I feel, falls under the category of ambition rather than recognition, but, as you say, he demands both.

I totally agree about the wealth issue: Lucius takes it for granted, and Ron wants enough money to be on equal terms with his classmates; and perhaps to follow his obsessions, like a good broom. I even think that, considering the contempt he has for the Malfoys, he might sneer at excessive wealth. But he is aware that the lack of it is disadvantaging.

if I'm reading you correctly, you're saying you love that dynamic because it brings out the strengths of the 'weaker' character, at least in the case of this pairing. For me... well, okay, there's the part of me that gets off on powerplays and made me drool over the Lucius-Arthur scenes in 'Rodents' (speaking of which, /*cough*/), but for character exploration I think it interests me for the opposite reason - for bringing out the weakness in the supposedly 'stronger' character.

Yes and no :). Because one aspect that fascinates me there is definitely bringing out the strengths of the weaker character, but usually in combination with forcing the acknowledgement/respect for those strengths from the stronger character... I'm not sure that's exactly the same thing as exposing the weaknesses of the stronger character (as you do it so memorably in 'Invictus'), but definitely related.

Which, on reflection, is I think more akin to your approach to Lucius/Harry? Because as you so often commented, in that pairing you found it difficult to write a non-victim Harry. So for Ron it seems to go the opposite way to Harry. If you agree, I'd be interested to know why that might be.

You never let me get away with sloppy argumentation :). My problem with Lucius/Harry is that I tend to make Harry weaker/more vulnerable than he is in canon, especially since OotP. Turning vulnerability into a weapon is something that fascinates me, but canon!Harry is too headstrong to allow himself to show weakness to an enemy. Ron... I'm aware I keep somehow idealising him/portraying him as more adult than he is in canon, but I see Ron as both weaker *and* stronger than Harry. Weaker because he's more insecure/hotheaded, jumping to conclusions and unable to let go of his prejudices. But stronger, too, because he's less likely to angst/agonise about his role in the war. For Harry, the war and the world rest on his shoulders, and if people die, he feels responsible. Ron has none of that baggage, and is a lot less introspective (or well, we don't see him at it in canon, through Harry's eyes. For me, his driving force is loyalty, and he knows his place - he's insecure about his abilities, but not about where he stands and what his role is.

Sorry for waffling at you at such length - it helps me clear my head, and if I want to turn this into a shipping essay... :).

[chthonya]

But I think for him, influence is more important; recognition is what he thinks he deserves without particular effort, simply for being a member of the wizarding aristocracy. What we see him strive for throughout – with Voldemort, with the school governors, with the ministry – is power and influence. That, I feel, falls under the category of ambition rather than recognition, but, as you say, he demands both.

Hmm, looks like we've uncovered a slight difference in perspective here. As I see it, Lucius expects influence to come automatically with the recognition that (imo) he feels he lacks as things stand. I tend to read his frustration with the lack of that influence and recognition as the motivation behind his engagement in politics. Without the desire for recognition, what motivates the ambition? I suppose one could go to attachment theory (a lot of people who are ambitious had insecure attachment to their parents in infancy), but that too stems from a desire for recognition - this time of psycological rather than social origin.

I suppose, I'm realising as I write this, that I don't see ambition as a positive trait, so perhaps I'm more willing to associate it with the weakness that I see driving it? By which I don't mean that I don't think ambition can yield beneficial results, but I do think its not a comfortable state of mind - to be driven by a sense of lack, of having to feel the void with one's achievements. Taking a more positive view of Lucius's ambition, I suppose he'd want to do his family proud, so I guess that's where a desire for power that isn't motivated by personal insecurities could come in.


I even think that, considering the contempt he has for the Malfoys, he might sneer at excessive wealth.

Good point. I'm sure he would - that sort of reverse snobbery is pretty common.


forcing the acknowledgement/respect for those strengths from the stronger character... I'm not sure that's exactly the same thing as exposing the weaknesses of the stronger character

It's a difference in focus, I think, depending on one's reading of the characters. It's not necessary for the stronger character to be confronted with his weaknesses in order to respect the stronger character. In fact, if we're talking personal weaknesses, I tend to think that the stronger character would have to be strong in himself to be able to acknowledge the strengths of the other character. (Masculine pronouns used deliberately here as we're talking in the context of Lucius.) It does depend on the kind of acknowledgement we're talking about, though: acceptance requires that inner strength, whereas respect of strength that could do one more harm than one had previously thought merely requires a healthy instinct for self-preservation!


You never let me get away with sloppy argumentation :).

Who said anything about sloppy? It's just that the comparison with your Lucius/Harry struck me as I was musing about the differences between your Lucius/Ron and my Lucius/Hermione, and I was curious to dig a little deeper, because you invariably have interesting things to say when you do.


For Harry, the war and the world rest on his shoulders, and if people die, he feels responsible. Ron has none of that baggage,

Interesting. I was going to say that perhaps he would if there was something he could blame himself for, but there's Sirius, of course - we don't see Ron or Hermione blaming themselves for getting themselves knocked out of the fight and perhaps contributing to his death. Arguably that whole incident is Harry's fault more than the others', but still... as you say, Ron isn't questioning his place in things (which isn't surprising, given their hugely differing backgrounds). And we don't see him agonising over 'if only I had done x better', either.


Sorry for waffling at you at such length

Well, ditto. And I was rather hoping you would, anyway! ;)