Other side as in there are two sides to this argument, you're emphatically on one, I'm mildly strong on the other. An argument which once, before everybody started slinging generalisations, was not about people of colour or animals or you, but about a HP-world fic prompt.
Safety in fandom... well, I find it hard to imagine anyone's safety threatened by an obscure tag with dodgy connotations in a very non-mainstream comm. Which, I'm perfectly certain, a lot of the vocal people encountered for the first time during this very wank. I still think it's ridiculously out of proportion even though I absolutely respect your right to see it differently.
I'll try to explain it with a very personal example: I know there is out there (in fandom) a very rare 'kink' that's (don't even know the name for it) Nazi-getup sex fic. Which, in my personal way of looking at the world, is as offensive as fic can get - *way* closer to home than racism based on colour (different part of the world here). We're not talking tags, but fic. I've never looked at it, never will, and whenever I see it mentioned (in an archive I have to sit on my hands not to yell how offensive, disgusting, historically *outrageous* it is. It seriously pisses me off. But... it's fic. Whoever writes/reads it might be ignorant, headblind jerks, but it's not there to hurt, or offend me. It's not *about* me. Give me a neo-nazi demonstration in the vicinity in real life and I'll be on the streets in protest with bells on. Show me someone who's crossing my online path arguing in favour of fascism or racism for real, and all my ideals of fairness and respect go out of the window. Yes, I have my touchy issues too. But seeing people getting as worked up over the fictional and not-offensively-meant... that I can't understand. More so, it feels like effort that could be much better used to deal with real life or at least purposeful offenses (and there's that on LJ!).
the Cassie Claire plagiarism scandal is particularly ironic, given that Cassie and her friends used the power of "mob mentality" for years to scream down anyone who pointed out the obvious fact of her plagiarism.
Exactly. That's what makes it even more infuriating if the 'side' I agree with behaves just as badly.
What I'm saying is, I did read your objections, and I found them, well, objectionable. Extremely so.
I'm honestly sorry - but there's nothing I can do about it. You see, my problem with your arguments and with all of the links you gave me (in fact, with Witchqueen's approach as such), is that it's intellectual suicide. It's not about 'education' (which should mean being trained to *think*), it's about being told what's right and wrong without being permitted an individual thought (which, all in itself, could already offend). It's about you being right, and everybody who won't fully and unquestioningly agree being evil. It's not about arguments or treating people fairly, it's only about surrender. It's asking that I hand my mind over to you to have it made up for me. And while I'm very sorry to offend you, or anyone, I won't do that. In fact, it scares me.
I'm not acting in bad faith because I fail to agree with you. I'm just trying to be honest with you and myself. Granted, you may not see it that way, but I'd be honoured if you'd at least think about it. And thank you, because without you pushing me, I'd not have figured out half of where my unconscious problems with this whole matter were coming from.
no subject
Safety in fandom... well, I find it hard to imagine anyone's safety threatened by an obscure tag with dodgy connotations in a very non-mainstream comm. Which, I'm perfectly certain, a lot of the vocal people encountered for the first time during this very wank. I still think it's ridiculously out of proportion even though I absolutely respect your right to see it differently.
I'll try to explain it with a very personal example: I know there is out there (in fandom) a very rare 'kink' that's (don't even know the name for it) Nazi-getup sex fic. Which, in my personal way of looking at the world, is as offensive as fic can get - *way* closer to home than racism based on colour (different part of the world here). We're not talking tags, but fic. I've never looked at it, never will, and whenever I see it mentioned (in an archive I have to sit on my hands not to yell how offensive, disgusting, historically *outrageous* it is. It seriously pisses me off. But... it's fic. Whoever writes/reads it might be ignorant, headblind jerks, but it's not there to hurt, or offend me. It's not *about* me. Give me a neo-nazi demonstration in the vicinity in real life and I'll be on the streets in protest with bells on. Show me someone who's crossing my online path arguing in favour of fascism or racism for real, and all my ideals of fairness and respect go out of the window. Yes, I have my touchy issues too. But seeing people getting as worked up over the fictional and not-offensively-meant... that I can't understand. More so, it feels like effort that could be much better used to deal with real life or at least purposeful offenses (and there's that on LJ!).
the Cassie Claire plagiarism scandal is particularly ironic, given that Cassie and her friends used the power of "mob mentality" for years to scream down anyone who pointed out the obvious fact of her plagiarism.
Exactly. That's what makes it even more infuriating if the 'side' I agree with behaves just as badly.
What I'm saying is, I did read your objections, and I found them, well, objectionable. Extremely so.
I'm honestly sorry - but there's nothing I can do about it. You see, my problem with your arguments and with all of the links you gave me (in fact, with Witchqueen's approach as such), is that it's intellectual suicide. It's not about 'education' (which should mean being trained to *think*), it's about being told what's right and wrong without being permitted an individual thought (which, all in itself, could already offend). It's about you being right, and everybody who won't fully and unquestioningly agree being evil. It's not about arguments or treating people fairly, it's only about surrender. It's asking that I hand my mind over to you to have it made up for me. And while I'm very sorry to offend you, or anyone, I won't do that. In fact, it scares me.
I'm not acting in bad faith because I fail to agree with you. I'm just trying to be honest with you and myself. Granted, you may not see it that way, but I'd be honoured if you'd at least think about it. And thank you, because without you pushing me, I'd not have figured out half of where my unconscious problems with this whole matter were coming from.